It is just a coincidence that this follows some of my Friday pirate Videos but this is a little sad. I have never really listened to Ed Young but I have heard him raved about by some friends. This video makes me not really want to hear from him again.
He talks about people who join a church or staff specifically to leave and start another church, he calls these people pirates. His is horrified that some people, the most recent ones he has had to deal with, took 20 years to complete their act of piracy. Seriously? If you can stay in a church let alone on the staff of a single large church for 20 years you deserve an award. If he really believes these people took the heartache, abuse, struggle and time over a 20 year period just to go start their own church he is crazy.
Several issues I have:
- He says church planters should plant in places that don’t have church, presumably like he did. No wait he is in Grapevine TX, Dallas (could there be a MORE church dense place?), and southern Florida.
- He says that if you did this in the corporate world you would be in jail. Apart from being untrue, he misses the point, as the larger churches I have been involved with do, CHURCHES ARE NOT IN COMPETITION!!!! WE ARE ON THE SAME TEAM!!! We are all working for the kingdom of Jesus Christ at least one would hope.
- When I was at a mega church much like Young’s a small church opened just across the street from the back side of the property and people were outraged but the thing is no one who goes to one of those churches would ever go to the other. We need more churches not less if we are to really reach the world with the Gospel.
- Having been through this situation on both sides understand that sometimes people just have to go their separate ways. Even Paul and Barnabas decided to go their separate ways but they realized they were on the same mission. Maybe I am presumptuous but it seems this kind of language only gets used when you were worried about building your own kingdom.
Now are there ethical questions that could be involved here sure, and I don’t believe there is one blanket answer. Again from my experience before I arrived at the mega church I attended an incident similar to what he is discussing occurred. A ‘pirate’ planted a church near by and many people float between them but is it accurate to say that that pastor and anyone who attends that church are in sin? Some people would say yes.
This video exposes some large issues within the organized church. It seems he is more interested in building his ‘business’ than God’s kingdom.
Hat tip to Letters from Kamp Krusty for the video.
6 responses to “Pirates? Are you serious?”
The other thing is that I’m unaware of even a “church-dense” areas in this nation where there are enough “seats” for everyone in the area.
I am not saying, by the way, that there isn’t a right and wrong way to do things but this just seems to speak to larger issues I have seen.
It is never okay to leave the church you are a staff member at and start a church in the same area without permission or blessing from your leader. It’s called rebellion! It is kinda the root of how satan became saten. He just “HAD” to do his own thing.
People love to use Paul and Barnabas as an example to leave and do your own thing. They were co-labors in a work together not Pastor and Staff Member relationship. If you and a friend start a church together and go your different ways then that would be the same. The problem for Paul and Barnabas was the fact that every ministry needs one head. Even so,they went different ways not the same, as in across town. The idea that Young is talking about is more like if Timothy had done his own thing.
If God has called you to start a church great but if you split (which I have never had happen to me but I could have done it) a church to start your own then you are very wrong.
When Jimmy Swaggert had his second fall and people began to run like crazy something like 15 different churches were started or split off. Jim Rentz (who I personal talked to at numberous times) was the real pastor of the church in Baton Rouge. He told me of the 15 or so started ONE that’s right ONE guy came to him for blessing to do it. Guess what? Pastor Rentz gave it and to my knowledge that church is still going strong. That ONE man had character!
Finally, yes these guys would go jail in the corporate world. You can’t work for IBM and steal their customer data and use it to build a business. You can’t do that, legally forget morally.
Anyone who is offended by what Ed Young said either didn’t understand what he meant or has HUGE issues with authority. I recommend reading Undercover by John Bevere (not a book about church splits but about God’s authority)
Craig,
First let me say, thanks for your comments.
I don’t think you can prove Biblically that it is always rebellion to do what is described here. I know it has almost become doctrine in some circles but the idea of authority you espouse isn’t accepted everywhere and is relatively new to the Body of Christ.
I don’t think so man. I could go on and about authority it is the key to almost every including faith. Why, because God is the ultimate authority.
Look at how many times refers to his authority over Corinths. However, seriously read Under Cover by John Bevere. If you will read (book), listen (Audio) or watch (dvd) I will personally send it to you if you agree to 3 things.
1. send it back
2. before I send it you have a target finish by date
3. You read listen or wath all of it. Any one you pick will take a total of about 12 hours.
What ya say. I’m serious man I think this principle could change your life.
If God speaks to you, and is in your heart to establish your own church, how could it possibly be a rebellion? I must agree with Jason, if one is able to go to church every Sunday, become part of the council, and keep their heart and mind open to the word of God, what they do with their love of God, religion, and desire to preach is not something that should be chastised, it should be praised. Perhaps they can come up with a new way to deliver the message to new people that otherwise may not listen.